Compelling reasons to upgrade to version 3?

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4 months 5 days ago #168655 by DeveloperChris
DeveloperChris created the topic: Compelling reasons to upgrade to version 3?
I am aware there is currently no "comfortupdate" upgrade path for LS2.x to 3.x

We have a large number of running surveys to migrate from 2.64 to 3.7 we would prefer not to be "straddling" two systems particularly when many administrators will be running surveys in both this would cause a lot of confusion, never mind the whole URL issue.

So with this in mind we are wondering whether this pain is worth going through?

What are, if any, the compelling reasons to upgrade/migrate to LS3

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4 months 5 days ago #168657 by tammo
tammo replied the topic: Compelling reasons to upgrade to version 3?
For us:
* far better organisation of the administrative user interface (but not perfect yet)
* better ways of styling surveys through themes that work with inheritance, so you only have to add what is needed

Tammo


Tammo ter Hark at Tools for Research
Proud developers of the TFR Responsive Limesurvey template
toolsforresearch.com/limesurvey-responsive-template

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4 months 5 days ago #168660 by LouisGac
LouisGac replied the topic: Compelling reasons to upgrade to version 3?
If you're not using custom plugins or themes, migrating from 2.7 to LS3 should be painless.

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4 months 5 days ago #168664 by DeveloperChris
DeveloperChris replied the topic: Compelling reasons to upgrade to version 3?
Unfortunately we are using customised themes. Some of them heavily customised. We are also using customised language files.

The main concern is the 140 or so currently running surveys.

Thats why I am looking to see if there is a "compelling" reason.

I could not find any guide to the migration even the "upgrading limesurvey" page only deals with the 1.+ to 2.+ version migration leaving us somewhat unsure of what to do.

Can we import the existing surveys inclusive of responses?
What other pain points are there?

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4 months 5 days ago #168665 by DeveloperChris
DeveloperChris replied the topic: Compelling reasons to upgrade to version 3?
While they are reasons, I would not call them compelling. Especially if there is a major disruption to services to implement the upgrade and test each survey is operating correctly.

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4 months 5 days ago #168666 by tammo
tammo replied the topic: Compelling reasons to upgrade to version 3?
Afaik: importing surveys with or without responsed will work, because the database has (hardly) changed.

Themes will have to be re-created.

If you have multiple surveys running, I would suggest setting up a new instance of LimeSurvey and start porting over whenever a survey is paused. After that invite respondent with the new URL and let the old version "fade out". Migrating with many surveys running, having to re-create themes on the fly could end up in a nightmare.

Just my 2 ct.

Tammo


Tammo ter Hark at Tools for Research
Proud developers of the TFR Responsive Limesurvey template
toolsforresearch.com/limesurvey-responsive-template

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4 months 5 days ago #168667 by DeveloperChris
DeveloperChris replied the topic: Compelling reasons to upgrade to version 3?
We are specifically trying to avoid running multiple instances. The number of support calls from confused admins would drown us.

We have a large number of survey admins to go with the large number of surveys.

Also some of the surveys are ongoing so they are never paused.

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4 months 5 days ago #168668 by tpartner
tpartner replied the topic: Compelling reasons to upgrade to version 3?
I agree with Tammo. Although I am a proponent of version 3.x, I think updating with that many active surveys is high-risk. If you set up a new instance, you can develop and test your templates before either porting the surveys via .lsa export or upgrading the 2.x version.

Cheers,
Tony Partner
Solutions, code and workarounds presented in these forums are given without any warranty, implied or otherwise.

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4 months 5 days ago #168670 by LouisGac
LouisGac replied the topic: Compelling reasons to upgrade to version 3?
Indeed, you should just hire a professional to create LS3 themes and manage your upgrade.

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4 months 5 days ago #168677 by DeveloperChris
DeveloperChris replied the topic: Compelling reasons to upgrade to version 3?
Oh. We would never try to do an in place upgrade. That's suicidal.

We would create a version 3 and then get our admins to test their individual surveys. If all good, shut down the server repeat the upgrade process and then restart.

So if the db is upgrade-able as implied in your reply, how is that done?

That would save us a lot of time importing users and permissions and surveys.

I think being able to upgrade the DB is critical to us because it really means all we have to worry about is the template issue. Which will be painful for a couple of the heavily modified ones but not insurmountable.

The language files are again a pain but not insurmountable.

I also want to start writing plugins. While its not critical, its certainly would be better if I did that on LS3.

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4 months 5 days ago - 4 months 5 days ago #168678 by DeveloperChris
DeveloperChris replied the topic: Compelling reasons to upgrade to version 3?
I'll just ignore the professional jibe shall I?
Last Edit: 4 months 5 days ago by DeveloperChris.

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4 months 4 days ago - 4 months 3 days ago #168692 by holch
holch replied the topic: Compelling reasons to upgrade to version 3?
Your situation is tricky. You will have to upgrade eventually, because support for 2.7x will stop (or already has?). So not doing the upgrade is not a solution, as with 140 current surveys I assume that you are using LS seriously. ;-)

I am always a fan of parallel installations for new major upgrades, because it saves me a lot of headaches. I can keep old surveys running until they are finished, I won't have sudden problems with existing surveys and I can thoroughly test new surveys.

But then I have a small number of people using LS actively (mainly me... ;-) ). With a big number of surveys and a big number of different survey admins such an upgrade can become very tricky. So I understand your point with not wanting to run a parallel installation, because of the big number of survey admins.

First of all, what I would do is to create a exact copy of my installation for doing the tests. Then I would do the upgrade. In my Version 2.73.1+171220 I get offered the upgrade to the latest Version 3.7.2 (180508), so Comfort Update would be an option.

Then I would do all the tests of the surveys, still working fine, etc. And I would create the Templates during this period as well.

Once everything is tested I would choose a time where you expect little survey traffic and do the comfort update. I know, with 140 ongoing surveys it is difficult to find the right time, but then there is never a time where nothing will happen. You will have to do it eventually.

Continuous surveys make it tricky. But depending on how you get people into those surveys, sometimes there are ways to guarantee that the flow is low (for some on the weekend, for some at night, etc.). Or if you send out invitations, then do it in between invitation waves. After 4-5 days when the invitations had been sent out, generally participation becomes very slow in my experience.

If you recruit on websites, just stop the recruitment process (probably javascript triggered) for a while and go for the upgrade then, etc.

Just a few ideas.

I'm not a LimeSurvey GmbH member. I answer at the LimeSurvey forum in my spare time. No support via private message.
Some helpful links: Manual (EN) | Question Types | Workarounds
Last Edit: 4 months 3 days ago by holch.
The following user(s) said Thank You: DeveloperChris, LouisGac

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4 months 4 days ago #168714 by DeveloperChris
DeveloperChris replied the topic: Compelling reasons to upgrade to version 3?
Thanks Holch.

This conversation has been good in identifying the need to move but most importantly that although its going to be difficult it is doable.

The approach we have discussed this morning is to..
* Replicate the current installation into a dev environment.
* Use comfortupdate to 2.7 then to 3.7
* Recreate our default templates using the new template system (never extend an extended template, a lesson we have already learnt)
* Recreate the heavily customised templates using the new template system
* Invite all our admins to test their respective surveys
* Fix any identified issues (the part we are afraid of)
* Once given a clean bill of health back up the existing
* Recreate our changes and import the new templates
* Again ask the admins to return to quickly go over their surveys to verify all has gone well

If it fails at that point - Panic

Can I also say in an unrelated matter the editor for this forum is woeful in Firefox. It cannot even do basic bullet pointing to existing text it just puts all the text into one bullet point and the text overlaps (incorrect line height)

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4 months 4 days ago #168723 by LouisGac
LouisGac replied the topic: Compelling reasons to upgrade to version 3?

DeveloperChris wrote: (never extend an extended template, a lesson we have already learnt)


We have no critical bug about it for now, just a problem with some "ghost" css files generating a 404 notice in the console. So what was your lesson about? Have you reported any bug about it?

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4 months 3 days ago #168738 by holch
holch replied the topic: Compelling reasons to upgrade to version 3?

If it fails at that point - Panic


Sounds like you have planned this through into the last detail... ;-)

But honestly, I think the approach you have discussed this morning sounds very reasonable and at the moment I can't imagine anything else, to make the transition smoother.
My main worries would be the templates. I don't see why the rest should break (but we all know how things go...).

I'm not a LimeSurvey GmbH member. I answer at the LimeSurvey forum in my spare time. No support via private message.
Some helpful links: Manual (EN) | Question Types | Workarounds

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