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TOPIC: Withdrawing 2.0a and the reasons behind it

Aw: Withdrawing 2.0a and the reasons behind it 4 years 2 months ago #69186

  • mdekker
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It seems there is no more discussion needed as the port to Yii is already in progress...
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Menno Dekker
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Aw: Withdrawing 2.0a and the reasons behind it 4 years 2 months ago #69194

  • Mazi
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I wouldn't say this is a fixed decision, we are still testing. But so far Yii looks very good.

Best regards/Beste Grüße,
Dr. Marcel Minke
(Limesurvey Head of Support)
Need Help? We offer professional Limesurvey support
Contact: marcel.minke(at)limesurvey.org'"
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Withdrawing 2.0a and the reasons behind it 4 years 2 months ago #69247

  • Fred
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Out of curiosity (since we are also looking at PHP frameworks for another project), what was the real objection to Cake? Was it performance? What was the "last straw" that made the LS team ditch Cake?
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Aw: Withdrawing 2.0a and the reasons behind it 4 years 2 months ago #69256

  • crafter
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My hunch says Menno is right on the mark.

I know there is only POC coding going on with Yii. I was busy with that same exercise. Any change of either releasing what you have, or providing an indication of which areas are being tackled so that others can be involved here in providing feedback about challenges in porting frameworks without overlap of effort.
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Withdrawing 2.0a and the reasons behind it 4 years 2 months ago #69261

  • Mazi
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Fred wrote:
Out of curiosity (since we are also looking at PHP frameworks for another project), what was the real objection to Cake? Was it performance? What was the "last straw" that made the LS team ditch Cake?
There were some reasons. The most important issues were related to the fact that CakePHP is a not so flexible framework so at some cases you have to stick to their standards and can't work around it even if there are better solutions.

I think there have also been some problems with the support for different DBs and if I remember correctly, nobody really cared about the bugs we reported to the cake team.

Best regards/Beste Grüße,
Dr. Marcel Minke
(Limesurvey Head of Support)
Need Help? We offer professional Limesurvey support
Contact: marcel.minke(at)limesurvey.org'"
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Withdrawing 2.0a and the reasons behind it 4 years 2 months ago #69282

  • c_schmitz
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Best regards

Carsten Schmitz
LimeSurvey project leader
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Withdrawing 2.0a and the reasons behind it 4 years 2 months ago #69283

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Crafter, if you would like to help please get in touch on IRC.
Best regards

Carsten Schmitz
LimeSurvey project leader
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Withdrawing 2.0a and the reasons behind it 4 years 2 months ago #69296

  • joer
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Hello,

Did you verify that the Yii license is compatible with yours?

This is an extract from: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#OrigBSD

Why is the original BSD license incompatible with the GPL? (#OrigBSD)

Because it imposes a specific requirement that is not in the GPL; namely, the requirement on advertisements of the program. Section 6 of GPLv2 states:

You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein.

GPLv3 says something similar in section 10. The advertising clause provides just such a further restriction, and thus is GPL-incompatible.

The revised BSD license does not have the advertising clause, which eliminates the problem.

Joer
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Withdrawing 2.0a and the reasons behind it 4 years 2 months ago #69297

  • jelo
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What happens when a future version of Yii comes with a different license? Betting on forking? Or was the only problem that the current and future license of CodeIngniter is incompatible?

As long as certain scenarios haven't been challenged in court we won't know what will happen in our case.
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Withdrawing 2.0a and the reasons behind it 4 years 2 months ago #69298

  • c_schmitz
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joer wrote:
The revised BSD license does not have the advertising clause, which eliminates the problem.

Yes,the revised BSD license is used by Yii.
jelo wrote:
What happens when a future version of Yii comes with a different license? Betting on forking? Or was the only problem that the current and future license of CodeIngniter is incompatible?

Yes, that was the 'only' problem.
Best regards

Carsten Schmitz
LimeSurvey project leader
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Withdrawing 2.0a and the reasons behind it 4 years 2 months ago #69676

+1 Symfony2
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Withdrawing 2.0a and the reasons behind it 4 years 2 months ago #69686

  • Mazi
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After weighing the pros and cons we decided to use "Yii" framework because it supports all features we need, is lightwieght and fast and the difference to CodeIgniter is not that big which makes porting easier.

Some Google Code in students already started porting the first parts so we hope to get lots of the porting done during Google Code in contest.

Best regards/Beste Grüße,
Dr. Marcel Minke
(Limesurvey Head of Support)
Need Help? We offer professional Limesurvey support
Contact: marcel.minke(at)limesurvey.org'"
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Withdrawing 2.0a and the reasons behind it 4 years 2 months ago #69841

  • tacman1123
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I'd like to chime in and support a license change. I spent about a month trying to integrate LimeSurvey into our application without violating the GPL, and in the end couldn't do it.

The GPL is an infective license. Any code it touches becomes infected with the GPL license, it is a license designed to make proprietary software open.

LimeSurvey is a fabulous survey tool. But let's say you want to ingrate a survey into your medical clinic software. Suddenly, you can't sell your medical clinic software without making your code open as well.

LS is in need of a pretty significant rewrite. I was excited to see that it was moving to MVC, but the first look at the CI port showed that it retained most of the architecture of building up HTML internally and displaying it at the end. The view file I looked at was little more than "print header, body, footer".

It appears that the LS API is also dead, which means that there's absolutely no way to easily use LS with a commercial application without infecting your code. For a while I used LS as the UI to creating the survey and reviewing the results, and did some of our processing internally on the database tables, but it became a nightmare trying to manage the logins and security. The LS 1.x code is very, very difficult to extend, and because it's not in github it's not even easy to fork and make corrections.

Anyway, I'm a huge fan of LimeSurvey, but hate the license restrictions. I have a client that needs a multi-lingual survey, and I'm probably going to install LS for them, but if and when they want my software, I'll have to explain why it uses a completely different system.

So all that is to say -- please figure out a way to make a less restrictive license, even if that means contacting previous contributors and asking them to switch to Apache or Berkeley or something else.

Thank you for your consideration,

Tac
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Withdrawing 2.0a and the reasons behind it 4 years 2 months ago #69843

  • DenisChenu
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tacman1123 wrote:
But let's say you want to ingrate a survey into your medical clinic software. Suddenly, you can't sell your medical clinic software without making your code open as well.
Stop this FUD !

You can integrate any GPL tools on any proprietary software !
  1. You made what you want with is you internal software. And if you don't distribute your software the there aren't any source of problem. source
  2. You can offer service with a modified source of limesurvey without distribute your modified source : GPL is not AGPL. source 1, source 2
  3. You can have link between GPL tools and proprietary tools without GPL contradiction. GPL tools don't have to be a part of a proprietary tool only. You have to separate the tools clearly source 1, source 2

And , please read the licence ! And somlething more : LimeSUrvey is under GPLv2 and more, then it's less strict than GPLv3.

For your problem:
you can sell GPL software, but with the source code .
If you want to sell a proprietary software using LimeSurvey, the separate the 2 tools clearly !

Denis

PS: If you want to have a proprietary software with qsame function than LimeSUrvey, then rewrite LimeSurvey ... :p
Last Edit: 4 years 2 months ago by DenisChenu. Reason: Type /selling GPL software
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Withdrawing 2.0a and the reasons behind it 4 years 2 months ago #69862

  • tacman1123
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Continuing the medical clinic example. If you offer a service you can integrate Limesurvey, agreed. But then a practice says "You know, we don't want to connect all our patient records to the internet, and we have to integrate with our insurance module, blah blah". So you install your software and their server, and suddenly you're "distributing" your software and it's subject to GPL.

My concern is that GPL is intended to infect. It's not just additions and enhancements to LS, but rather anything that integrates it.

And yes, you can separate it, but the code isn't designed for easy modular integration. I would love the survey to be integrated like a forum -- here's some functionality you can easily add.

I appreciate your response. Can you provide more insights about what the goals and intentions of the authors are regarding the license? Rather than saying "this is what the license allows", say "there are the restrictions we want", and see if the license really reflects that.

As a software developer, I'm afraid of the GPL -- a small mistake could cost you your entire business, so I'm hesitant to use it. I'd love to be educated correctly if I'm wrong.

Thx,

Tac
Last Edit: 4 years 2 months ago by tacman1123. Reason: factual correction
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