New template based on Bootstrap

More
3 years 2 months ago #119943 by tammo
tammo replied the topic: New template based on Bootstrap
Yes, we do have several little things still to do with the template, but little by little we will be getting there.

Thanks!


Tammo ter Hark at Tools for Research
Proud developers of the TFR Responsive Limesurvey template
toolsforresearch.com/limesurvey-responsive-template

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
3 years 2 months ago - 3 years 2 months ago #120389 by jelo
jelo replied the topic: New template based on Bootstrap
When importing the version 1.21 from GIT or your dedicated website the following error occurs:

"Unable to find startpage.pstpl to add {TEMPLATEJS} placeholder, please check your template."


The git archives are containing another directory. So the path for the imported template is then
tfr_responsive-121/tfr_responsive-1.2.1 instead of tfr_responsive-121.

Another point concerning data protection and tracking is the direct usage of google font api
<link href='//fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Open+Sans' rel='stylesheet' type='text/css' />
<link href='//fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Droid+Sans' rel='stylesheet' type='text/css' />

You should add the fonts to the package directly (haven't checked the licence) or point out in a Readme/FAQ how to prevent using the external API and adding webfonts to the template locally.

You really should try to get the free version bundled with Limesurvey. There might be some conflicts but a broad distribution will help to fix bugs soon. Other commercial offers could join. But since you seem very serious with the design team doing this template we should acknowledge the invested time and money. Still not convinced about the proportions of some gui elements but a broader distribution of the template will show us what size is the optimum.

Thanks.
Last Edit: 3 years 2 months ago by jelo. Reason: Adding a bug

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
3 years 2 months ago #120403 by tammo
tammo replied the topic: New template based on Bootstrap
Hi Jelo,

we also saw the "glitch" in Github, therefore we now guide users to the download we host ourselves at:

toolsforresearch.com/limesurvey-responsive-template

The download you will find there does not have that ugly github-wrapper. Since LimeSurvey uses Github for it's own development, it would be nice if these problems could be handled, but the developers point all their energy into LimeSurvey itself, which is a choice I can understand (most of the time).

In the current version we did indeed use the Google fonts and a font of our own, but this became a problem, because the template editor did not accept font files (until the most recent build of LimeSurvey). Since many people still use older versions of LimeSurvey, we have to refer to foonts at some place on the Internet, we have even changed the upcoming release to fetch the font files from our own server. Of course this may change when the template editor accepts the font files at the majority of users.

Next week the commercial version of the template will be available through the template shop of Marcel Minke (Mazi). We now focus on that step. After that we can look into the possibilities of getting this free template into LimeSurvey, we have not yet taken any steps in that direction. I'll ask Mazi if this is something we should explore.

You also wrote about the error message around the {TEMPLATEJS} placeholder. I also saw this, but could not find out what was wrong. The template did seem to work. Do you know what could cause this error message to appear?

Thanks for you encouraging words. The template development turned out to be a much longer trip than we anticipated, we visited places in LimeSurvey that we even did not know that they existed, and still we feel that LimeSurvey is a city without a real map, a city in which we have visited the highlight, but far from every street and corner....


Tammo ter Hark at Tools for Research
Proud developers of the TFR Responsive Limesurvey template
toolsforresearch.com/limesurvey-responsive-template

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
3 years 2 months ago #120414 by Ben_V
Ben_V replied the topic: New template based on Bootstrap

tammo wrote: we have to refer to foonts at some place on the Internet


Often I think it could be very great to have a Limesurvey CDN serving all major static files (including some extra widely-used fonts like open-sans)... It will be especially valuable for users with basic shared hosting packages where the most of the time, gzip compression is impossible to turn on.

This said, thanks again for this high quality new template!

Benoît

EM Variables => bit.ly/1TKQyNu | EM Roadmap => bit.ly/1UTrOB4
Last Releases => 2.6x.x goo.gl/ztWfIV | 2.06/2.6.x => bit.ly/1Qv44A1
Demo Surveys => goo.gl/HuR6Xe (already included in /docs/demosurveys)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
3 years 2 months ago - 3 years 2 months ago #120436 by jelo
jelo replied the topic: New template based on Bootstrap

tammo wrote: You also wrote about the error message around the {TEMPLATEJS} placeholder. I also saw this, but could not find out what was wrong. The template did seem to work. Do you know what could cause this error message to appear?


The Import/Upgrade routine is checking for placeholder {TEMPLATEJS}.
You could add that to your template.

In the templates shipped with Limesurvey you will lines like this:
<!-- The following line includes jquery.js, jquery-ui.js, survey_runtime.js , template.js and needed specific js file for survey -->
{TEMPLATEJS}

As long as you add these files manually the placeholder won't be missed technically.
But you might get support calls because of this upgrade error message.
Marcel will be able to check that before shipping of the commercial version starts.
Make sure that you warn buyers about which browser versions are not actively supported.
Last Edit: 3 years 2 months ago by jelo.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
3 years 2 months ago #120437 by tammo
tammo replied the topic: New template based on Bootstrap
I saw that the template editor expects all files that belong to the template to reside in the root of the template.

We never used the template editor, we always used the FTP-upload and never saw problems. We learned that multiple users cannot do this, since FTP-access is not available for them.

They have to use the template editor. This routine is defined rather rough, since it forces template developers into making a mess os the template root. We rather use several directories for different sort of files.

I already asked our developers to reintroduce the mess in the root of the template, since that will give the least trouble at the moment, but it would be worth looking into a better structure of the template directory and a smarter template editor that will look at the places where the files are stored, following the paths that are mentioned in the template files...


Tammo ter Hark at Tools for Research
Proud developers of the TFR Responsive Limesurvey template
toolsforresearch.com/limesurvey-responsive-template

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
3 years 2 months ago #120445 by jelo
jelo replied the topic: New template based on Bootstrap

tammo wrote: They have to use the template editor. This routine is defined rather rough, since it forces template developers into making a mess os the template root. We rather use several directories for different sort of files.

A good folder/mediamanager which allows to control every uploaded file. To have all relevant images and other assets together in a folder structure would be nice. There are a lot of issues around the file handling.
When cloning a survey, uploaded files via survey editor are not cloned/copied to the new survey folders.
I would see a copy of a template inside that survey folder. Assets like Fonts and Media are sometimes Part of Template or part of the survey. Other survey packages use a folder concept when jumping between different surveys. Currently uploaded files by the user won't be deleted if the survey is deleted from the system too. Is beyond the scope of this thread but the awareness of files used and linked in a template and survey is hard to reach.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
3 years 2 months ago - 3 years 2 months ago #120446 by tammo
tammo replied the topic: New template based on Bootstrap
Maybe an idea like in Drupal:

Each Drupal installation comes with several standard themes (Drupal-language for templates). Each user can also add themes. This can be done in several ways, of which two are relevant here:
1. add them to the sites/all/themes directory, to make them available to all websites in the Drupal installation (in the case of LimeSurvey that would be in /upload/templates to all surveys)
2. add them to site/website.name/themes to make them available to just that one website (parallel to one survey in upload/{SID}/templates)

I would love that LimeSurvey in it's structure could be more flexible. Do you think that that could be discussed (and heard by the developers)?


Tammo ter Hark at Tools for Research
Proud developers of the TFR Responsive Limesurvey template
toolsforresearch.com/limesurvey-responsive-template
Last Edit: 3 years 2 months ago by tammo.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
3 years 2 months ago #120450 by jelo
jelo replied the topic: New template based on Bootstrap

tammo wrote: Do you think that that could be discussed (and heard by the developers)?

I have a very bad track record when it comes to feature requests with Limesurvey. I have given up on feature requests. Since there is no roadmap and the money is in customizing Limesurvey I won't expect anything. The main reason for using Limesurvey is control over hosting. SaaS users won't stick with Limesurvey. The competitor field has too much investor money at hand.

Let me ask you one question: If you had known before, how many hours needed to be invested to release such a theme, would you still do it?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
3 years 2 months ago #120469 by tpartner
tpartner replied the topic: New template based on Bootstrap
@jelo, @tammo - I remind both of you that LS is open source maintained and developed by volunteers. You are welcome to code and submit pull requests if you think you can improve it.

Cheers,
Tony Partner
Solutions, code and workarounds presented in these forums are given without any warranty, implied or otherwise.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
3 years 2 months ago #120472 by tammo
tammo replied the topic: New template based on Bootstrap

Let me ask you one question: If you had known before, how many hours needed to be invested to release such a theme, would you still do it?


When we started we thought this would be easy. The further we came, the more difficult the job seemed to be. Mainly because of two reasons:
  1. There is an immense amount of settings for many question types and survey configurations, which leads to thousands of different scenarios you may have to check. We thought that we used a fair part of what LimeSurvey has to offer, but as we proceeded, we saw that we have only scratched the surface.
  2. There is some inconsistency in which the HTML of different question types is set up, so we have had to rebuild question-HTML with javascript several times, which led to head aches, shouuting developers, nightmares and broken marriages.

We ended up spending 10 months longer and 15.000 euro more than anticipated and are still not finished. Each day we find out more settings and more user scenarios. We have to keep track of users that do an enourmous lot of programming and hacking themselves, but also we keep track of users that look at survey software for the first time. I can tell you nice anectotes on that.

We met several very friendly people, some users offering solutions we never thought of, we also met people that were even angry that we did not want to give away all code and sources that we had: "He, it's Open Source, isn't it?"

It looks like a journey into "terra incognita". We are glad that we have something now that we can use for designing clear surveys for our customers. We eneded up with a swiss army knife that has many more features than we needed and we also ended up having to conform with LimeSurvey design decisions that we would have done very differently. But OK.

We now have a free version that we wanted to share with the community for two main reasons:
  1. this way we give back something to a community that we owe a lot to, since we use LimeSurvey intensively for several projects
  2. setting it free will give uw a lot of interaction with people that have questions, which we can learn from
  3. it is a good promotion for the Premium template, which will be launched next week

We learned awfully much from this process, which makes us better developers than when we started. We also learned more about LimeSurvey and I sincerely hope that this Open Source project will be more open to wishes of users. We sometimes fear that LS is focussing too much on .... Yes, on what? We would very much like to know what the core team is focussing on, since they are very quiet. The most recent roadmap is from january 2013, which makes us uneasy.

LS has much potential, but that potential must be made true.

In the meantime, we go on... but we would like a more fundamental discussion about what LimeSurvey wants to be, for whom.


Tammo ter Hark at Tools for Research
Proud developers of the TFR Responsive Limesurvey template
toolsforresearch.com/limesurvey-responsive-template
The following user(s) said Thank You: jelo

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
3 years 2 months ago #120473 by tammo
tammo replied the topic: New template based on Bootstrap
Hi TPartner,

thanks for your comment.

We have submitted some pull requests, not many, I have to admit.

We thought that we could focus on something we very clearly needed ourselves and give that to the community, so people that see use to it can use it. Which we did. Hence the free template. We did that as volunteers.

But I guess a more strategic brainstorm is needed, before pull requests can be made. Hopefully you, and others in the core team are having those strategic brainstorm, as a user on distance, I would very much like to hear in what direction LimeSurvey is heading.

Tammo


Tammo ter Hark at Tools for Research
Proud developers of the TFR Responsive Limesurvey template
toolsforresearch.com/limesurvey-responsive-template

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
3 years 2 months ago #120478 by jelo
jelo replied the topic: New template based on Bootstrap

tpartner wrote: @jelo, @tammo - I remind both of you that LS is open source maintained and developed by volunteers. You are welcome to code and submit pull requests if you think you can improve it.

Thanks Tony, happy to get the chance to get an answer from an informed member of the LimeSurvey Team.

Do you think an opposed feature request will be supported when I deliver the code to the opposed feature request? If there is no roadmap or mission statement, you don't know if your feature wish/request is completely out of scope. I am not here demotivate people or demanding to fulfill my feature requests. When discussions about features are like e.g. this

www.limesurvey.org/en/forum/future-featu...tallation-per-survey

I am unsure how to carry on. What would be the next step? Since only a minority of the userbase is posting here and only a fraction of them is here to discuss topics beyond their own survey I only can ask the project team for the direction.

Beside pushing code there might be other ways:
www.limesurvey.org/en/forum/future-featu...sponsor-new-features

And since you brought up the volunteers aspect of the Limesurvey project.
What does this job offer mean "Wanted: Open Source PHP Developer in Hamburg/Germany" to the project?

If some words sound harsh, take my apology in advance. As a non-native speaker I sometimes strike a wrong note.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
3 years 2 months ago #120479 by tpartner
tpartner replied the topic: New template based on Bootstrap
I stand corrected, as far as I know, all but one developer (who starts next week) are volunteers. I'll see what I can do about getting the roadmap updated.

Cheers,
Tony Partner
Solutions, code and workarounds presented in these forums are given without any warranty, implied or otherwise.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
3 years 2 months ago #120481 by tammo
tammo replied the topic: New template based on Bootstrap
Would be great! Developing LimeSurvey is all very well, but it would get even better if interested groupd would know where LimeSurvey is heading.

Marketing LimeSurvey is definitely more than developing good software.

We look forward to the (hopefully interactive) roadmap!


Tammo ter Hark at Tools for Research
Proud developers of the TFR Responsive Limesurvey template
toolsforresearch.com/limesurvey-responsive-template

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Start now!

Just create your account and start using Limesurvey today.

Register now
Join our Newsletter!