Terminology

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8 months 2 weeks ago #149698 by frisket
frisket created the topic: Terminology
I have a longstanding and ongoing problem with our students struggling to grok the terminology used by Limesurvey. One of the most puzzling aspects is the reversal of the terms 'sub-question' and 'answer option', which is particularly baffling to new users.

In the attached example, Limesurvey refers to the items down the left-hand side of an array as the answer options when in fact they are the sub-questions; and it refers to the choices along the top as the sub-questions when they are in fact the answer options.



I know it's too late to change this, but I am curious as to why this approach was taken.
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8 months 2 weeks ago #149699 by tpartner
tpartner replied the topic: Terminology
That appears to be an Array by column type question. In that question type, the y-scale is answers and the x-scale is sub-questions, which means that you can only have a single answer per column.

To simplify it, questions and sub-questions are columns in the data, answers are the values in those columns.

Cheers,
Tony Partner
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8 months 2 weeks ago #149705 by frisket
frisket replied the topic: Terminology
Ah, thank you. Data design. I knew there had to be a reason. A pity that the wording of the interface is the wrong way round, though.

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8 months 2 weeks ago #149706 by tpartner
tpartner replied the topic: Terminology
It's not the wrong way around - that question type rotates the x and y scales.

Cheers,
Tony Partner
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8 months 2 weeks ago #149709 by frisket
frisket replied the topic: Terminology
But the normal user cannot be expected to know or guess that the question type rotates the axes.
The normal user doesn't even think in terms of 'axes': to them it's just a block of subquestions down the side with categorised answers across the top. To them it's not relevant how it's instantiated inside the database.
It's not usually a good idea to allow the internal design and schema of an application to be exposed in the user interface: a user interface is supposed to cover up all the messy internals. I know there are times when it can't be, but the interface should not mislead the user.

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8 months 2 weeks ago #149711 by tpartner
tpartner replied the topic: Terminology

But the normal user cannot be expected to know or guess that the question type rotates the axes.

The normal user should refer to the manual to see question layout - manual.limesurvey.org/Question_type_-_Array_by_column

...it's just a block of subquestions down the side with categorised answers across the top.

Have you tested this question type? It does NOT have answers across the top.


Cheers,
Tony Partner
Solutions, code and workarounds presented in these forums are given without any warranty, implied or otherwise.
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8 months 2 weeks ago #149714 by holch
holch replied the topic: Terminology
I agree that Limesurvey has a few not soo logic naming going on. But in this case I agree with Tpartner. This question type is created to switch the position of answer options and subquestions, that's what this specific question type is for. Therefore the naming is totally correct and in line with the naming used throughout Limesurvey. It is basically a reversed array question. In some cases people need this.

I'm not a LimeSurvey GmbH member. I answer at the LimeSurvey forum in my spare time. No support via private message.
Some helpful links: Manual (EN) | Question Types | Workarounds

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8 months 2 weeks ago #149721 by frisket
frisket replied the topic: Terminology
Yes, of course the user should RTFM, but they don't. They call me instead :-)

And yes, if you look at my original post, I attached an example which precisely does have the answers across the top, where they are expected to be. Your example is rather unusual, with the answers down the side.

I think what Limesurvey is missing is that users want what I posted, basically a 5-point array where they get to specify the labels of the columns instead of having them numbered 1-5. If they could do this, they wouldn't be getting themselves in a tangle by using Array by Column. It's a case similar to tag abuse in XML, where the feature required is not visible, so the closest feature is abused to approximate it.

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8 months 2 weeks ago #149723 by tpartner
tpartner replied the topic: Terminology
Tony out.

Cheers,
Tony Partner
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8 months 2 weeks ago #149725 by holch
holch replied the topic: Terminology
Hahahahaha, I have never seen Tpartner giving up on someone....

So, I'll give it another try: There is the normal Array question type, where the "subquestions" are to the left, the answer options are on the top. You can have as many subquestions and answer options as you like (or fit onto the screen). This question type allows only one answer per line (so basically one answer per subquestion).

Now there are some special cases, where people would like to allow only one answer per column, which is why there is a array by column. For all other cases you use the normal Array question.

Here you define the subquestions:

Here you define the answer options:

This is how the question looks like:


So why do they have to use the Array by column if the "normal" array question type is what they are looking for? Not sure if I get the problem...

I'm not a LimeSurvey GmbH member. I answer at the LimeSurvey forum in my spare time. No support via private message.
Some helpful links: Manual (EN) | Question Types | Workarounds
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8 months 2 weeks ago #149728 by Ben_V
Ben_V replied the topic: Terminology

frisket wrote: I think what Limesurvey is missing is that users want what I posted, basically a 5-point array where they get to specify the labels of the columns instead of having them numbered 1-5.


What the hell else do you need ?


Benoît

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8 months 1 week ago #149979 by DenisChenu
DenisChenu replied the topic: Terminology

holch wrote: ....

So why do they have to use the Array by column if the "normal" array question type is what they are looking for? Not sure if I get the problem...

Because : the way of presentation is not the most important ...

If they want one answer by column : then each column make a columln twhen they export in csv.

Question/subquestion => one information => one column in the data.
Answer : the content of this column.

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8 months 1 week ago - 8 months 1 week ago #149992 by jelo
jelo replied the topic: Terminology

frisket wrote: I think what Limesurvey is missing is that users want what I posted, basically a 5-point array where they get to specify the labels of the columns instead of having them numbered 1-5.


I see two discussion points.

1. Subquestions vs answers
I know no other survey tool which is using these two terms like LimeSurvey uses it.
Other tools use just answers for these two.
I'm not sure why the database design was made the way it was done, but it still makes sense in LS to use these different terms. Answers come with restrictions. You currently cannot show/hide answers based on relevance equations. You only can apply that on subquestions.

In LS there is a bit of a groupthink which is mostly cultivated by developers. If you are used to other survey tools the wording can be quite different.

2. Array questions
A minimum of checking out question types before contacting you can be expected by your students?
The typical questions around Array in this forum is when someone is in need of a 4 or 6 point choice.

manual.limesurvey.org/Question_type_-_Array_(5_point_choice)
manual.limesurvey.org/Question_type_-_Array_(10_point_choice)

The question to you is, where is the issue/lacking with the plain question type array?
manual.limesurvey.org/Question_type_-_Array

Other tools more likely present the whole columns and rows in a more compact way and other some visual guidance where columns and rows are ;-)




BTW: How did you end up using LimeSurvey? Free will? Or is that forced by someone in the organization?
And what version/build of LimeSurvey is used in the organization?
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Last Edit: 8 months 1 week ago by jelo.

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8 months 1 week ago #150067 by DenisChenu
DenisChenu replied the topic: Terminology
Adding Rows/Columns in replacemant of Axes-X and Axe-Y + in answer and subquestion seems a good feature to have .

Assistance on LimeSurvey forum and LimeSurvey core development are on my free time.
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8 months 1 week ago #150090 by holch
holch replied the topic: Terminology
I agree with Denis. While x- and y-axis are perfectly correct terms, for many it is probably a lot easier to think in "rows" and "columns". But I guess this is an easy fix in translation.

I'm not a LimeSurvey GmbH member. I answer at the LimeSurvey forum in my spare time. No support via private message.
Some helpful links: Manual (EN) | Question Types | Workarounds

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